Pictures from the 2015 Unplugged GT.

Pictures from the 2015 Unplugged GT.

Random shots from the event.

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A selection of some of the armies.

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And the awards.

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Solstice 2015 (A one day event)

Hey all! Jim here, I’m very excited to announce that I’m going to be hosting my very first one day event!   (PDF Available at the bottom of the post)

Solstice(A Send Off to 8th Edition)

This is a Warhammer Fantasy team event which pits the forces of Order against the forces of Disorder to decide the fate of the world. Will the sun rise to announce the Solstice or will the world be forever shrouded in darkness?

As with the changing of the seasons, so must the rules. In my opinion, Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition is by far the best edition GW has published thus far. So I see it fitting to celebrate 8th edition by playing it as close to the natural un-comp (Pre End Times mind you) state of the game. Please join us in the fun and celebrate the “Spirit of the Game” as we look forward in anticipation to 9th edition… Unless it comes out prior to this event, then let’s just have some fun!

When: June 20th, 2015
Where: The Portal – 60 Hilliard St, Manchester, CT 06042
Entry Fee: $15.00
Spots available:  28
Register to: Jim Ellsworth –
Registration date /Lists due by: June 1st/June 15th

Points: 1250
Number of Rounds: 4
Time per Round: 1 hour and 30 minutes
Paint Requirement: None

Sportsmanship: Pass/Fail; if “Fail” must provide thoughtful reasoning. The offending team will suffer -5 Battle Points.

 Teams: Teams are decided by which army you choose when you register, see below for the factions. (Neutral Armies can join either Order or Disorder to ensure an even number of armies per side)

Order Disorder Neutral
Bretonnia* Beastmen Ogre Kingdoms
Dwarfs Daemons of Chaos Tomb Kings
High Elves Dark Elves*
Lizardmen Orcs & Goblins*
The Empire* Skaven
Wood Elves* Vampire Counts*
Warriors of Chaos

*If the teams are still unbalanced even with Neutral Armies, I reserve the rights to re-arrange the teams to make sure they are even.  As uncertain as these times, even the most unlikely armies will stand together and fight Disorder, as others are corrupted and aid in the destruction of Order.

Betrayer: 1 Betrayer per side (VPs earned go to opposing team), the Betrayer will be selected in secret, who will it be?

Objective: Team with the most total Battle Points after round 4 shall be declared victor.

Tentative Schedule:

Arrival time: 9:00am
Round One: 9:30am – 11:00am
Lunch: 11:00am – 12:00pm
Round Two: 12:00pm – 1:30pm
Break: 1:30pm – 1:45pm
Round Three: 1:45pm– 3:15pm
Break: 3:15pm – 3:30pm
Round Four: 3:30 – 5:00pm
Voting and Awards: 5:15pm – 6:00pm

Army Comp:
(I did say “as close to the natural un-comp state of the game” right?)

– Pre-End Times Army Comp (25% Lord & Hero, 25%+ Core, 50% Max Special, 25% Rare).
– No special characters, End Times or otherwise.
– No End Times armies.
– Blight Kings, Morghasts, Skullreapers, Stormfiends and Wrathmongers are allowed.
– Beastmen may use Marks from the Legion of Chaos End Times book.
– Tomb Kings may use the Crumble rule from the Nagash End Times book.
– Lore of Undeath is not allowed.
– One core unit must have full command.
– The Allies rules will not be used.

Scoring – Win/Lose/Draw: 15/5/10 Battle Points
*please note if both players are able or not able to complete the main objective by the end of the game, then the end result is a Draw, unless specified.

Round 1
Deployment: Follow the deployment rules for Blood and Glory on page 148 of the Warhammer Fantasy Rulebook.
Victory Condition: Be the only one to have at least one unit containing fortitude in the opponents’ deployment zone at the end of game.

Round 2
Deployment: Follow the deployment rules for Battle Line on page 144 of the Warhammer Fantasy Rulebook.
Victory Condition: Have the most Fortitude within 6” of the center of the board. Equal or no fortitude in the center results in a draw.

Round 3
Deployment: Follow the deployment rules for Meeting Engagement on page 149 of the Warhammer Fantasy Rulebook.
Special Rules: After deployment, each player must select one of their opponents unit champions as the Traitor, the Traitor gains a 4+ ward for the duration of the battle.
Victory Condition: Eliminate your opponents Traitor by the end of the game.

Round 4
Deployment: Follow the deployment rules for Blood and Glory on page 148 of the Warhammer Fantasy Rulebook.
Victory Condition: Reduce your opponents Fortitude to 1 or less to break their army; breaking opponent doesn’t end the game. However, a broken army no longer benefits from the rules for “Hold Your Ground” or “Inspiring Presence”.
Secret Missions

At the beginning of each round, the players will be handed a secret mission that is not to be revealed to their opponent until after the last turn. The team that completes the most secret missions will receive a bonus next round. Here is a list of Secret missions:

– Assassinate:  BsB, (Defaults to General if army doesn’t have a BsB)
– Assassinate:  General
– Assassinate:  Mage, (Defaults to General if army doesn’t have a Mage)
– Have the most captured table quarters, requires a unit with fortitude in a quarter where there are no enemy units with fortitude.
– Have the most captured terrain pieces (hills, forest, swamps, ruins and buildings). These can be captured by having the most fortitude within the 6″ of the terrain piece. Units containing fortitude cannot claim multiple terrain pieces.

Secret Mission Bonuses

After round 1 each member of the team that completed the most secret missions in the previous round receives a bonus for the next round. The player must select and show their opponent which bonus they will use before the game begins (before table side is chosen, deployment, spell selection…)

– +1 to roll for first turn
– Trade one spell roll for a randomly (D8) sig spell from different lore
– Decide who deploys first
– Automatically win “Roll for Sides” roll
– Have opponent reveal their secret objective
– +2 Battle Points

Game Awards
(This will depend on the number of players in attendance)

– Savor of Light (Best of Order Team by BPs)
– Bringer of Darkness (Best of Disorder Team by BPs)
– Favorite Army
– Favorite Opponent

Hope to see you guys there!

PDF version:  Solstice 2015

Painting Assassinorum: Execution Force, Part I

Hey guys,

I bought Assasinorum: Execution Force last Saturday. This is the new GW boxed game wherein a group of four Imperial Assassins try to well, assassinate, a Chaos sorcerer who has plans to cast a spell that will rip apart some part of the galaxy. It’s a cooperative game where 1-4 players control the Imperial Assassins, while the game itself controls the Chaos troops. Wait, why am I giving you a description of this game when you can just read it yourself on the GW website?


Since buying this puppy on Saturday, I have been assembling the models and painting like a demon. Over the coming days, I aim to post pictures of my progress. In this entry, you can see the 15 cultists and 3 chaos space marines that I have assembled and based.

IMG_1835 IMG_1839 IMG_1838 IMG_1837 IMG_1836


As you can see, I used a mixture of basing materials to recreate the damaged imperial building that is the theme of the game board tiles. Here you can find some cork, diamond plate pattern plasticard, waffle pattern plasticard, wire mesh, and barbed wire. I am pretty happy with the results of this, but it means that the bases will take longer to paint than they might otherwise.

Also, I should mention that I elected to prime these guys with GW’s Mournfang Brown.

IMG_1840 IMG_1841

I have never really used this before, but it is proving to be a real time-saver. The red color and the flesh color go over the primer in one coat. It normally takes two with chaos black primer. But, you guys will see the results of that in the next part of this series.

2015 Unplugged GT – Post Tournament Thoughts from a TO

Disclaimer – I anticipate this will be quite long.  Read with caution.  :-)

I’ve received a lot of feedback about the Unplugged GT over the years, but nothing like this year.  I wanted to explain our thought process and address some of the comments as well as share some of my own thoughts unrelated to the feedback.

For starters the Unplugged GT doesn’t aim to be every other tournament.  There are established standards for various tournament regions and we like some of those standards better than others.  Some of them we downright hate, other we steal for our own event.  If you come to our event expecting the norm you might be sorely disappointed, or rewarded depending.  Our event only exists because of a sour experience at a GT and our desire to push some established limits and buck the norm.

So let me start at a high level here.  In general, soft scores are used in a very deceiving way.  This seems to have become the accepted norm (at least around here) and we don’t like the way they are applied.  Thus at our event they are used differently.  The difference is in scaling.  If a score is out of 50, it’s common to see all scores within 30 to 50.  If 50 is out of 200 then it’s worth 25% of the total right?  Not when the bottom score is a 30!!  It’s only “really” worth 10% because that’s the range that was actually used.  So, the way you scale your soft scores and the way you score them are independent and both very important criteria.  We may have missed the mark this year on the percentages we used, but as a club that is something we will evaluate over the next month while we break down how the GT went.

Okay, there is another concept in play here and it applies to both sportsmanship and painting.  I’m not sure if this is the right term, but I’m going to call it a barrier to entry.  An expectation.  A lower limit.  That’s what a 0 is in any category for the soft scores.  If a tournament requires a painted army and the definition for painted is 3 colors then that is a 0.  It’s the bare minimum, so it’s worth 0 points.  No bonus points for a minimum job.  That means some armies get single digit scores.  The points are awarded for things you did BEYOND the minimum.  The more you do, the more points you score.

It’s the same in sportsmanship.  Having okay games is not deserving of an average score.  It’s the expected minimum!!  If you can’t give people decent games we don’t want you at our event.  If you give people GREAT games?  Well that’s worth bonus points.  But we aren’t awarding Favorite Opponent points for average play.  It’s for great play.  You’ll also notice that we don’t call it “sportsmanship”.  We call it Favorite Opponent for a reason.  This score is a competition.  You are in direct competition with the other people at the event to score those votes, and therefore those points.  You don’t get free battle points just for being an average player do you?  Hell no, you have to earn your battle points.  No different here.  If you want the points you need to go out of your way to make sure your opponent has fun.  If you are kicking their teeth in, well then you better work even harder.  HOWEVER, I just want to point out that there isn’t really a clear correlation between battle points and lower Favorite Opponent votes.  On average, Favorite Opponent scores were actually lowest at the BOTTOM of the rankings, not the top.  And if you threw out 3 outlying low scores, the top 5 had an average only 1 point off of the total average score.  The rest of the field supports similar lack of strong correlation, with high and low scores in random places.

So what about paint scores?  The philosophy is simple – all other things aside painting your army nicely makes for a more enjoyable experience for your opponent.  Our goal with the paint tiers was to encourage a certain level of painting.  The tiers were made so that you could score the majority of the points with what we believe to be a VERY reasonable skill set and time commitment for painting an army.  That would have netted 30+ points out of 50.  The higher tiers were much more difficult to get into and would represent a very small portion of the field (targeting a bell curve, right?) so 30+ was going to be higher than or equal to lets say 60-70% of the field.

Some of the armies that got minimum scores received them because:

  • models were missing parts
  • models were just coated with flat colors, no attempt at wash/highlight/shade
  • etc

Another thing about painting (that admittedly, was probably not applied consistently) is that units should be clearly identifiable.  If you want to use an alternative model range it shouldn’t detract from your opponent being able to play the game.  They shouldn’t have to guess what unit X is versus unit Y.  This is something we will look at in the future to make sure we do a better job of penalizing (and on a more consistent basis) when this isn’t there.  I’m gonna throw it out there that Alex Schmid’s and Matt Cassidy’s armies both very poorly represent what they are (thematically and visually) and paint job aside they probably received uneven level of deduction for that.  I chose those 2 in particular because they scored relatively high and low scores, but shared a similar issue.

About the paint judges themselves.  I did not contest a single score they gave me.  Although they asked for my opinion on a few cases I stayed out of the paint judging.  They are both quite accomplished painters and I trust their judgement.  That’s not to say they got the scores 100% correct, but they put in more effort to getting accurate scores than I’ve seen at any other GT period.  So to the people who commented that I’m the TO and I should have veto authority – that’s not how we operate.  Yes we have a person who is in charge.  But the Unplugged GT doesn’t happen because 1 person showed up to run an event.  It happens because 10 people did.  It wouldn’t be the tournament that it is without all of them involved.  Being able to trust the paint judges to do their job allows other people to also do their job, me included.  There were no drive-by-looking-at-the-casualty-pile scores.  There were no “he won’t care so I’ll just make it up” scores.  There were no “this is about average” from 3 feet away scores.  Do you want to know what there was?  3 passes on every single freakin army.  A gut instinct judgement, a fine tuning, and then a sanity check.  Tell me how many tournaments give you that level of commitment to getting the scores accurate.

So again, I back the paint judges to the end.  If you think you got the wrong score, then I’m open to talking about it (not to change your score, but to understand why you feel that way) but please understand the pressure they are under to judge all of the armies.

That addresses most of the feedback.  What do I think we need to do better?

Proof reading the players packs one more time would have been nice.  I liked the scenarios but they needed a few wording clarifications.  We should probably change the King of the Hill one to not actually require a hill since it’s complicated to change the table layouts around, especially since we use not maps and not all the tables have a hill.  Also, I wasted a lot of time trying to figure out who had which Favorite Opponent sheet because I forgot to put a spot for your own name at the top.  There were also some ETC vs non-ETC clarifications that we should have annotated.

Actually the maps in general should be updated.  The layouts were designed to be interesting, not fair.  Perhaps we could try for some more middle ground.  Although if we play 9th edition next year who knows?  They could all need changing anyway!

As always we’ll evaluate the weighting of different scores.  This is the first year we put a heavy emphasis on soft scores.  It was held back in the past because we wanted to make sure that if we made them worth a lot we had an accurate way to measure them.  We haven’t discussed as a club yet but I’m pretty happy with the accuracy.  Now we need to work on the tuning.

I do want to point out that this is mostly a damned if you do/damned if you don’t situation.  People didn’t attend this year solely based on the comp pack, and in the past other people have not attended based on DIFFERENT comp packs.  It’s the same for how you score things, judge things, etc, etc.  So although we appreciate feedback, please bear in mind that we are trying to please a generality, a wide audience.  I don’t expect anyone to like every part, but hopefully you like enough of it to attend.

I love the Unplugged GT and I hope despite any criticism ya’ll do too.  In the end this is a 100% volunteer job that we shell out dozens (hundreds for some of us) of hours into trying to make it the best event possible with no pay (negative pay?), taking time away from our families and hobby.

In closing, I just want to extend a huge thanks to all the people that helped out.

  • Nick for taking care of the lunches.
  • Greg and Jeff for paint judging.
  • Peyton for walking the floor to answer rules questions.
  • Mike for his awesome media coverage.
  • Noah for being the ringer.
  • Brian/Jim/Omar/Pat/Scott for helping out in various ways.

And I also want to thank all of the players that have supported us over the years.  In addition to attending our event we’ve encountered many of you on the table at other tournaments and had great games, spent evenings laughing over silly board games, enjoyed a beverage and/or cigar, talked strategy, shared hobby advice and stories, commiserated over defeats or crazy dice and celebrated many victories.  To the Warhammer tournament players – I salute you!  Here is to friends made and enemies defeated.  :-)


An apology to the Unplugged GT

I have two things I want to post tonight.  This being the first I will try to keep brief.

Basically my worst fear about running a GT came true.  I screwed up the scoring.  All weekend long this is always the thing I worry about the most.  Last thing I want to do, all other things considered, is give out awards to the wrong people.  And now I’ve done just that.

Well what the heck happened?  The formula that was calculating Favorite Opponent scores had an error in it.  In short, 38 players had less points than they should have.  Anyone who received a 2nd place vote only got 2 points instead of 6.  Fortunately, this made only minor impacts onto overall standings as a whole.  However, it made significant impacts to the Favorite Opponent awards.

If you looked at your sports score and thought “gosh, I  didn’t realize I was such a jerk” you might want to look at the corrected scores.  Overall, 232 more points were distributed across the field.

I can’t really “fix” what happened, but I’ll do what I can to compensate for the situation as best I can.  I will be in contact with the “winners” to outfit them with trophies and prizes.  I will NOT be taking these awards back (prizes or trophies) from anyone who received these at the ceremonies.  The gentlemen that received the awards all still finished top 10 in sports, and just a few points away.  They all were clearly ahead of the pack anyway and should be commended on being great opponents.

To make matters worse I can’t just go buy new trophies.  They are each hand crafted by yours truly and take quite a while to create.  That said, I will try to get them out as soon as possible along with the GW prizes.

So once again my sincerest apologies to the entire field for the mix up, but in particular to the “old” winners:

  1. Jake Hutton
  2. Josh Hankin
  3. Brian McMillen
  4. Anthony Valente
  5. Scott Craig

And the “new” winners:

  1. Jake Hutton
  2. Allen Buehner
  3. Tony Chastenay
  4. Chris Lovell
  5. Jay Malvagno

Sad face,

Full Results on warscore:

2015 Unplugged GT – Results

2015 Unplugged GT


Place Name Battle Sports Paint Bonus Overall Army
1 Larry Mottola 90 18 47 5 160 Vampire Counts
2 Eric Shaefer 82 23 48 5 158 Empire
3 Josh Hankin 71 27 41 5 144 Daemons of Chaos
4 Keith Bonneau 89 15 31 5 140 Vampire Counts
5 Alex Schmid 112 6 16 5 139 Daemons of Chaos
6 Kevin Coleman 78 13 43 5 139 Orcs and Goblins
7 Jeff Durham 74 18 42 5 139 Dwarfs
8 Travis Weyforth 79 21 33 5 138 Daemons of Chaos
9 Matt Cassidy 78 15 42 0 135 Dwarfs
10 Jake Martin 66 21 43 5 135 Orcs and Goblins
11 Cory Walizer 83 13 32 5 133 Orcs and Goblins
12 Keith Conroy 70 15 42 5 132 Ogre Kingdoms
13 John Franklin 81 13 31 5 130 Empire
14 Chris O’Brien 76 18 31 5 130 High Elves
15 Allen Buehner 65 28 32 5 130 High Elves
16 Pat Hill 66 26 31 5 128 Dark Elves
17 Rob Allison 64 18 41 5 128 Skaven
18 Jay Malvagno 45 28 49 5 127 High Elves
19 Roger Yohn 70 18 31 5 124 Warriors of Chaos
20 Anthony Servello 63 16 40 5 124 Warriors of Chaos
21 Jarrett Messing 61 16 42 5 124 Empire
22 Chris Lovell 60 28 31 5 124 Empire
23 Chris Tesorio 82 18 18 5 123 Skaven
24 Justin Lengel 64 20 32 5 121 High Elves
25 David Lover 51 21 44 5 121 Vampire Counts
26 Anthony Fasano 71 13 31 5 120 Skaven
27 Brian McMillen 38 27 48 5 118 High Elves
28 Alexander Samardzich 62 18 32 5 117 Dark Elves
29 Adam Steele 67 23 18 5 113 Dwarfs
30 Matt Perry 44 15 48 5 112 Orcs and Goblins
31 Jim Ellsworth 55 20 31 5 111 Wood Elves
32 Jake Hutton 41 32 33 5 111 Vampire Counts
33 Egbert Stolk 47 20 43 0 110 Vampire Counts
34 Rhys McDonald 44 18 42 5 109 Dark Elves
35 John Chastenay 56 16 31 5 108 Wood Elves
36 Jonathan Green 79 21 2 5 107 Lizardmen
37 David Haldenwang 58 11 32 5 106 Ogre Kingdoms
38 Kyle Holman 53 15 32 5 105 Skaven
39 Joe Psillos 53 13 31 5 102 Beastmen
40 Anthony Valente 44 25 33 0 102 Wood Elves
41 Andras Fulop 51 11 33 5 100 Warriors of Chaos
42 Jeff Foster 44 20 31 5 100 Orcs and Goblins
43 Adam Parente 55 13 30 0 98 Dark Elves
44 Craig DeLauzon 48 13 31 5 97 Orcs and Goblins
45 Anthony Chastenay 61 28 2 5 96 Lizardmen
46 Allan McNab 42 19 30 5 96 Dark Elves
47 Martin Orlando 36 8 43 5 92 High Elves
48 Brian Ring 56 13 17 5 91 High Elves
49 Chris LaBelle 45 23 16 5 89 Dwarfs
50 Scott Craig 26 25 32 5 88 Wood Elves
51 Tom McMillen 32 15 32 0 79 Orcs and Goblins
52 Mike Herbert 45 11 17 5 78 Skaven
53 Patrick McMillen 27 14 32 5 78 Empire
54 Matt Bertolino 49 18 4 5 76 Wood Elves
55 Harry Herbert 24 13 31 5 73 Vampire Counts
56 Victor Baginski 45 6 16 5 72 Tomb Kings
57 Philip La Placa 24 21 16 0 61 Bretonnia
58 Chandler Parker 22 13 16 5 56 Dwarfs

2015 Unplugged GT – Round 5 Pairings

2015 Unplugged GT

Round 5 Pairings

Name Table 5 Opponent 5
Adam Parente 16 Pat Hill
Adam Steele 12 Jarrett Messing
Alex Schmid 3 Larry Mottola
Alexander Samardzich 20 Matt Perry
Allan McNab 1 Philip La Placa
Allen Buehner 15 Joe Psillos
Andras Fulop 24 Victor Baginski
Anthony Chastenay 19 David Lover
Anthony Fasano 11 Jake Martin
Anthony Servello 18 Egbert Stolk
Anthony Valente 25 Jeff Foster
Brian McMillen 23 Brian Ring
Brian Ring 23 Brian McMillen
Chandler Parker 2 Patrick McMillen
Chris LaBelle 22 David Haldenwang
Chris Lovell 21 Jake Hutton
Chris O’Brien 7 Kevin Coleman
Chris Tesorio 9 Rob Allison
Cory Walizer 4 Eric Shaefer
Craig DeLauzon 27 Tom McMillen
David Haldenwang 22 Chris LaBelle
David Lover 19 Anthony Chastenay
Egbert Stolk 18 Anthony Servello
Eric Shaefer 4 Cory Walizer
Harry Herbert 29 Rhys McDonald
Jake Hutton 21 Chris Lovell
Jake Martin 11 Anthony Fasano
Jarrett Messing 12 Adam Steele
Jay Malvagno 17 John Chastenay
Jeff Durham 5 Keith Bonneau
Jeff Foster 25 Anthony Valente
Jim Ellsworth 13 Keith Conroy
Joe Psillos 15 Allen Buehner
John Chastenay 17 Jay Malvagno
John Franklin 6 Travis Weyforth
Jonathan Green 10 Justin Lengel
Josh Hankin 8 Matt Cassidy
Justin Lengel 10 Jonathan Green
Keith Bonneau 5 Jeff Durham
Keith Conroy 13 Jim Ellsworth
Kevin Coleman 7 Chris O’Brien
Kyle Holman 14 Roger Yohn
Larry Mottola 3 Alex Schmid
Martin Orlando 26 Matt Bertolino
Matt Bertolino 26 Martin Orlando
Matt Cassidy 8 Josh Hankin
Matt Perry 20 Alexander Samardzich
Mike Herbert 28 Scott Craig
Pat Hill 16 Adam Parente
Patrick McMillen 2 Chandler Parker
Philip La Placa 1 Allan McNab
Rhys McDonald 29 Harry Herbert
Rob Allison 9 Chris Tesorio
Roger Yohn 14 Kyle Holman
Scott Craig 28 Mike Herbert
Tom McMillen 27 Craig DeLauzon
Travis Weyforth 6 John Franklin
Victor Baginski 24 Andras Fulop

2015 Unplugged GT – End of Round 4 Standings

2015 Unplugged GT

End Round 4 Standing

Name Battle
Alex Schmid 96
Larry Mottola 84
Cory Walizer 73
Eric Shaefer 72
Jeff Durham 71
Keith Bonneau 69
John Franklin 68
Travis Weyforth 67
Chris O’Brien 65
Josh Hankin 63
Kevin Coleman 63
Matt Cassidy 63
Chris Tesorio 62
Rob Allison 62
Jonathan Green 60
Justin Lengel 57
Anthony Fasano 56
Jake Martin 55
Jarrett Messing 55
Adam Steele 53
Keith Conroy 52
Jim Ellsworth 51
Roger Yohn 51
Kyle Holman 49
Adam Parente 48
Joe Psillos 48
Pat Hill 48
Allen Buehner 46
Anthony Chastenay 45
David Lover 45
Egbert Stolk 45
Jay Malvagno 45
John Chastenay 45
Anthony Servello 43
Alexander Samardzich 42
Matt Perry 41
Chris LaBelle 40
Chris Lovell 40
David Haldenwang 40
Brian Ring 38
Jake Hutton 37
Brian McMillen 36
Andras Fulop 35
Victor Baginski 35
Anthony Valente 34
Jeff Foster 34
Matt Bertolino 33
Martin Orlando 30
Tom McMillen 29
Craig DeLauzon 27
Mike Herbert 25
Harry Herbert 22
Rhys McDonald 22
Scott Craig 22
Allan McNab 20
Philip La Placa 20
Chandler Parker 19
Patrick McMillen 8